Disclaimer: The following is a lot of talk about PUP. More specifically, a lot of talk about a theoretical idea to allow PUP to solo difficult NMs that cannot be solo'd by sleep nuking or eva tanking. For more information on the original plan, please visit this post:
dantpup.livejournal.com/12232.htmlReason for revision: Ok, so a brief overview of why this is needed. I got a bit of time to play around with PUP/NIN awhile ago, stacking upwards of +41 evasion in gear ontop of my capped out 284 evasion skill (with gear), and trying out the kite/nuke method on a pot in sea. All in all, with evasion traits included, +76 evasion ontop of 284 skill. The result? The concept of solo kite nuking on PUP as I described is sound, but the choice of subjob to achieve the effect of kite tank was flawed on serveral levels.
Firstly, despite the extremely high amount of stacked evasion gear, I found my evasion to be lacking at best. Honestly, I was surprised at how poorly I evaded even campaign mobs (as I later attempted to solo using the same kite/nuke). I suppose this just goes to show in ineffectiveness of attempting an evasion build on PUP for much more than lower level NMs. Also, this is the final nail in the coffin for any hope for a certain PUP on KI to ever claim to have "Eva tank solo'd Zipnaca." We simply can't get the needed evasion to dodge attacks from things 5-10 levels above our own with any sort of consistency.
Secondly, and more importantly, was my own failure to realize exactly how quickly the enmity generated by a nuke would wear off when grabbed with Ventrilloquy. PUP/NIN fails to provide and adequte way to maintain a high enough CE and VE to keep hate off of the automaton. While Ventrilloquy is ideal for grabbing initial hate, it is unreliable when using it to maintain hate. This was, of course, my biggest fear, and one I have addressed in this first revision.
Revision 1:Part 1: Support Job: Clearly PUP/NIN is not nearly as effective a choice as I had hoped. This left me stuggling to pick a subjob that could provide addaqute hate management without losing survivability. Intially I gravitated towards the standard choice: RDM. Between blink, stoneskin, phalanx, and cures, RDM is an excellent subjob when NIN is ruled out for survivability. However, RDM fails a few key tests, making it unsuitable as a subjob for this task.
1) RDM sub provides a basic MP pool (With 4 MP merits) of about 215 MP. After examining my most likely gear choices (disscussed in Part 3) I was only able to add an extra 56-60 MP to this total. 275MP by itself it not enough to hold hate /RDM, nor to last through an extended fight.
2) RDM sub requires to time intensive a hate building process. To hold hate on RDM, you are required to spam spells as they come up (Dispel, Sleep, ect). This comes natural to RDM main as they have access to 10% fast cast gear, a large MP pool, Refresh, and convert. PUP/RDM has access to less spells, less fast cast, and no form of natural MP regeneration. On top of that, it is too risky to stop and cast spells like dispel, blind, and poison multiple times while kiting. Without shadows, I doubt I would survive a round with an NM, and even if I did I doubt I would still have hate.
3) Skills. As wonderful as Phalanx and Stoneskin are, PUP. . . less than the natural skill of a RDM (ie We don't got nothing) and there isn't enough +Skill gear in the game to change that. The lack of potent forms of this spell would spell disaster if this were attempted.
So barring RDM, I started looking at other possibilities. DRK is a common NIN tanking sub for end game, but its small MP pool, aswell as falling into the same tanking style as RDM, make it a no go. WAR gives me voke, which is awesome for this, and defender, more defence is never bad, but lacks in any real way to regain HP without items.
So I found myself looking for a job with high hate spells and JAs, cures, and some form of a respectable MP pool.
The obvious choice is PLD! Now, PLD as a subjob:
1) Flash and Cure III. While not as potent as Cure IV, with a proper cure cheat I could still generate some decent CE and VE using cure III. Tag that on with the 180 CE and 1280 VE from Flash and suddenly I have a way to generate and maintain hate as PUP/PLD.
2) JAs. Sentinel and Shield Bash both generate a fairly solid amount of hate. And while both are on a 5 minute timer, they would only need to be used in "Oh shi-" situations (Presumably)
3) MP. OK, so I lied, PLD Doesn't have the greatest MP pool. I figure with gear I'll have around 235-250. But it DOES get Auto-refresh, which adds a great deal of MP. Stack a Ixion Cloak or V.Cloak ontop of that, and suddenly MP Becomes far more sustainable, even with a hail of flashes.
PLD also adds a few other positives, increased HP, two defence bonus traits, resist sleep (lol). Past that, a lot of the issue starts to become avoiding damage. /PLD leaves a smaller margin for error as its harder to stop without shadows. Mobs that cast (especially tier III+ nukes) may also cause issues, though depending on casting speed and frequency, it may not matter.
Part 2: Gear:
Clearly the same gear I described in the last post doesn't carry over. I've already shown the pointlessness of an evasion build, so clearly there must be another choice.
The choice that I came up with is one of -Damage and +MP/Enmity. I swapped out my boxer's for a cheviot (though umbra would be better), my wind staff for Earth staff, and one of the eva rings for jelly ring. Thats a solid -30% physical damage taken, even if I do get +5% Magic damage from it. In my neck/ring slot I swapped eva troque/ring for Harmonia and Mermaid, bringing my total +enmity to +8 (pre flash gear). Earrings would ideally be 2x Hades +1, but right now I just have Antivenom and Insomnia. Hands I have RSE2 Hands (+65 HP) and Prince's Slops (+30 HP && MP). Body will be V.Cloak of Ixion Cloak, depending on if I can get another one from Finale (I can't sell it ever though, since I'll be getting it free lot). Not sure on Waist yet, might just full time swift.
For flash, I'll have to swap to Turban and Swift Belt for sure. not sure what body piece yet, might just swap in a place holder. Also going to swap in my Hades Sainti for flash, for the +7 enmity. That be +15 total enmity for flash with a recast of about 22.75 seconds.
I haven't worked out my cure cheat yet, but it shouldn't be too hard, what with errant and all.
Part 3: StrategyThe basic idea behind this are the same as before. Steal hate from automaton while kiting. Its just done differently now. Depending on the mob you're fighting, you can either open with a tier IV nuke >> Vent >> Flash to secure a hate base, or you can open with flash >> sentinel. Either way you'll give yourself a bit of enmity to work with. The most important thing to do though is get up your CE, which is most easily done with Cures.
In terms of keeping hate, Flashing every time the timer is up will be important, with a Cure III between every 2 flashes. This is based approximently on numbers I picked at random. Until I actually do some testing (or someone else does) I can't really say how many or how often, but I assume these numbers when figuring out the MP math.
The important thing to note here is that for the first couple nuke rounds hate will be shakey, but by the time you deactivate Quirk for the second time, the amount of hate you've built up should allow a lot of breathing (And nuking!) room. Since hate would no longer be determined by the automaton, more consistent nukes should be able to happen.
The need for items is there too. Yag drinks and ethers will most likely be needed.
Part 4: MP:Assuming 235 MP with 2/tick Auto Refresh
2/tick = 2 per 3 seconds = 40 per minute = 2400 per hour
Flash = 25 MP every 45 seconds before haste. In 75 seconds Auto refresh generates 50 MP. In 90 you can flash twice. Total MP gain is 10.
Flash = 25 MP every 40.95 seconds (9% haste) = In 75 seconds Auto refresh generates 50 MP. In 82 seconds you can flash twice. Total MP gain is negligable, though still positive.
Cure III = 46 MP. Ever 82 seconds flash is cast twice at 0 MP loss, followed by a Cure III. Thus, every 82 seconds 46 MP extra is lost without being gained back. At 235 MP, MP would be drain in 5 rounds, 410 seconds (6.83 minutes).
It takes 69 seconds to gain 46 MP, 352.5 seconds (5.87 minutes) to regain the entire MP pool.
What does all this mean? Well, two things.
1) Rationing MP when low to maximize MP gained back. Casting only 1 flash ever 82 seconds, staving off from cures, anything to help gain MP back. Though it should be noted that a complete stop of hate generating is not a good idea.
Post an Entry2) Items are more or less a neccessity for this. Pack many Yagudo drinks and some elixers/ethers. Save the elixers/ethers for emergencies, but apply the yag drinks whenever MP is low.
Part 4: Conclusion:I need to take PLD to 37. Thats the obvious conclusion. Most of this is all still theoretical in nature, but is worth looking into. MP is, as with all PLDs, the major issue, so I need to spend a bit more time ironing out those details.
I plan on taking PLD to 37 as soon as I finish COR to 37, though if any other PUPs want to try this, feel free. Questions and comments can be either placed on this LJ (OpenID is supported, but you need to long in at
www.livejournal.com/openid/), or sent to me in game (If you're on alexander server). A few of you also have my email. Go ahead and send stuff there too.
Part 5: Disclaimer again:Yeah, same thing as last time. I'm not saying that I HAVE done this and that is a sure fire way. Its just a theoritical idea that I think is worthy of further investigation. Please don't post any nasty "zomg you suck" posts. I'm always on the look out for critique, not criticism. If you don't know the difference between the two, just read your post outloud and I'm sure you'll figure it out.
On an unrelated not, shout out to Rpgphinatic for letting me spew the math at him late last night and for his suggestions/input. Much appricated!